Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124

04/04/2011 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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01:07:17 PM Start
01:08:13 PM Confirmation Hearing(s): Big Game Commercial Services Board
01:14:57 PM Confirmation Hearing(s): Board of Game
01:29:10 PM HB186
02:06:14 PM HB106
07:19:02 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Continued at 6:00 pm Today --
+ Confirmation Hearings: TELECONFERENCED
Big Game Commercial Services Board;
Board of Game
*+ HB 186 WOOD BISON TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 106 COASTAL MANAGEMENT PROGRAM TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 106(RES) Out of Committee
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
** Meeting will Recess at 3:00 pm & will
Reconvene at 6:00 pm Today **
                        HB 186-WOOD BISON                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:29:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON announced  that  the next  order  of business  is                                                              
HOUSE  BILL NO.  186, "An  Act relating  to the  authority of  the                                                              
commissioner of  fish and game with  regard to the  importation or                                                              
relocation of wood bison in the state."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:29:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:29 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:30:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK, speaking as the sponsor of HB 186,                                                                         
paraphrased from the following sponsor statement [original                                                                      
punctuation provided]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Wood bison are  an endangered species. The  only herd of                                                                   
     Wood bison  in the  whole United  States resides in  the                                                                   
     Wildlife  Conservation Center  in  Portage, AK  awaiting                                                                   
     release.  They have  been promised a  10-J exemption  to                                                                   
     the Endangered Species Act.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska  Department  of Fish  and  Game has  planned  for                                                                   
     years  to introduce  those bison into  the Innoko  River                                                                   
     drainage,  close to  the  villages of  Shageluk,  Anvik,                                                                   
     Holy Cross and Grayling.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The  people of  that area  have  cooperated with  ADF&G,                                                                   
     unaware   of  the   potential  long-term,   irreversible                                                                   
     impact of introducing an endangered species.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  Federal  Government  has  never  passed  up  on  an                                                                   
     opportunity  to  lock up  Alaskan  lands.  Environmental                                                                   
     groups  are  not  likely  to  wait  long  before  filing                                                                   
     litigation against the 10-J exemption.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The history  of Federal and State governments,  combined                                                                   
     with  the  unwavering  assault  against  development  in                                                                   
     Alaska  by environmental groups  makes the  introduction                                                                   
     of  an endangered  species  an extremely  risky  venture                                                                   
     that   should   not  be   undertaken   without   serious                                                                   
     deliberation.  This is  not  a scientific  issue, nor  a                                                                   
     food issue. It  is a totally political issue  with grave                                                                   
     long-term  consequences  for any  region  of the  state.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     This  bill does  not prohibit  the  introduction of  the                                                                   
     Wood  Bison. It  simply requires  that the  introduction                                                                   
     occur with  permission of the Alaska  State Legislature.                                                                   
     This safeguards  people of any  area of Alaska  from the                                                                   
     introduction  of  Trojan Bison  without  fully  informed                                                                   
     counsel.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     In 40 years  of conflict in the Delta Junction  area the                                                                   
     State  of Alaska  has done  very little  to resolve  the                                                                   
     unintended   consequences   that   occurred   from   the                                                                   
     introduction  of Plains  bison  into the  region in  the                                                                   
     1920's.  The unintended  consequences  that will  result                                                                   
     from  the introduction  of Wood  bison  into the  Innoko                                                                   
     area will  be much  more significant  than those in  the                                                                   
     Delta  area. Those who  think they  will be eating  Wood                                                                   
     bison  in ten years  will more  likely become  embroiled                                                                   
     in a lawsuit within two.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:32:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK then presented an 8-minute video on wood                                                                    
bison; the written transcript from which he paraphrased follows                                                                 
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     My  main concern  with the  introduction  of Wood  Bison                                                                   
     into our area  is that the people of Holy  Cross, Anvik,                                                                   
     Shageluk  and  Grayling  are  going  to  end  up  a  sad                                                                   
     "Whereas..."  in a sad petition  to Washington  DC where                                                                   
     the government is no longer of by and for the people.                                                                      
     Once  you  know  the  facts,  I  don't  think  you  will                                                                   
     consider it for a nanosecond.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The wood  bison that ADF&G  plans to introduce  into our                                                                   
     district is the ONLY Wood Bison herd in the US.                                                                            
     Should  we  think  for  one   minute  that  the  Federal                                                                   
     Government  will  uphold  their 10-J  exemption  to  the                                                                   
     Endangered Species Act?                                                                                                    
     Should we  think that the  10-j exemption will  last one                                                                   
     weekend  before Environmental  groups  file  a law  suit                                                                   
     against  it?  We  won't  be   hunters.  We  will  become                                                                   
     litigators in lawsuits!                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I  wanted  the bison  in  the  headwaters of  the  Stony                                                                   
     River  until  I learned  the  story.   They  are  Trojan                                                                   
     Bison. Once we  allow them through the gates,  they will                                                                   
     destroy our country from within.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Look at  Delta. They  have Plains bison  to hunt.   Over                                                                   
     16,000  people apply  for a  permit each  year and  only                                                                   
     130 people get  one. What will our chances  be ten years                                                                   
     from now  when bison hunts  are opened? (If  our lawyers                                                                   
     perform a  miracle and protect  us from the  Federal and                                                                   
     environmental nonsense.)                                                                                                   
     Do  we   want  all  those   outsiders  hunting   in  our                                                                   
     backyard? Do we  really think we will get  a permit? Our                                                                   
     chances are better at the local bingo hall.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Have  you read  the  10-J  exemption to  the  Endangered                                                                   
     Species  Act. Here it  is.   There's nothing there  that                                                                   
     makes me feel safe.                                                                                                        
     The Feds  have never rescinded  a 10-J exemption  yet...                                                                   
     yet!  When did  the  Feds pass  up a  chance  to lie  to                                                                   
     Alaskans and  take our land?  When did the Feds  not lie                                                                   
     to Indians?                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     This  is an  endangered  species  we are  talking  about                                                                   
     bringing  into our  country.   These are  the ONLY  Wood                                                                   
     Bison in the whole United States.                                                                                          
     Look  at the  polar bears.  Reliable  sources say  there                                                                   
     are five times  more polar bears now than  there were in                                                                   
     the 70's,  but the  Feds recently  have taken charge  of                                                                   
     120  million acres,  from the Canadian  border to  below                                                                   
     Kotzebue.  And the polar  bears aren't even  endangered.                                                                   
     I think  the Feds  are using  the bears  to lock up  the                                                                   
     country.                                                                                                                   
     Doyon  folks didn't want  the bison  in the Minto  Flats                                                                   
     and made sure they stayed in Portage.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Should we trust the Federal government?                                                                                    
     Look at the Statehood Act                                                                                                  
     The  Feds knew  we didn't  have  many people  to tax  in                                                                   
     order to  run the State  government, so the  Feds agreed                                                                   
     to develop  the resources  of Alaska.  The state was  to                                                                   
     get 90%  of the revenue to  run the state. That  was the                                                                   
     Statehood Agreement act.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:35:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     With  ANILCA, President  Carter  violated the  Statehood                                                                   
     Act! The  statehood act gave  the State of Alaska  104 M                                                                   
     acres of land.  ANILCA locked up an equal  amount, 104 M                                                                   
     acres.  The  Feds  promised  they would  NEVER  do  that                                                                   
     again.                                                                                                                     
     Recently, President  Obama, in violation of  ANILCA, set                                                                   
     in  motion the  process to  take another  huge chunk  of                                                                   
     Federal  land in  Alaska and  lock  that up  too in  the                                                                   
     name of "wild lands."                                                                                                      
     They  lie.  Not  once, but  always. They  lied with  the                                                                   
     statehood act,  they lied with ANILCA, and  now they are                                                                   
     doing  it again.  Who in  the  Federal Government  could                                                                   
     sign a paper that you would believe?                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I  passed through  Oregon when  one  Federal Judge  shut                                                                   
     down  most  of  the  logging   industry  in  that  state                                                                   
     because of  the spotted  owl. Environmental groups  said                                                                   
     the  Endangered spotted  owl only nested  in old  growth                                                                   
     trees,  so they  needed to  be  protected. Thousands  of                                                                   
     people were put out of work because of the owl.                                                                            
     But the  truth is the spotted  owl loves to nest  in old                                                                   
     pickup    trucks   and    other    such   places.    The                                                                   
     environmentalists  used the  owl  to lock  up the  state                                                                   
     and put people out of work.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:36:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Recently  on the  House floor  we passed  HJR 17  urging                                                                   
     the Federal  Government to  reconsider the situation  in                                                                   
     Unalaska.                                                                                                                  
     Unalaska  had  an  exemption  but the  EPA  revoked  the                                                                   
     exemption  that Unalaska had  regarding their water  and                                                                   
     secondary treatment  plants. The EPA requirement  is now                                                                   
     an unfunded  mandate of $9.5  million for treatment  for                                                                   
     cryptosporidium  and  there  is  NO  cryptosporidium  in                                                                   
     Unalaska!  The secondary  treatment  mandate is  between                                                                   
     $20-50 million.  That totals over $6,500 for  every man,                                                                   
     woman and child in the town of 4,370 folks.                                                                                
     When  Unalaska appealed,  the  EPA said  "Too bad."  The                                                                   
     deadline for  filling for an exemption had  passed. They                                                                   
     don't care about the people of Unalaska.                                                                                   
     The reason  I mention this is  that we will  be trusting                                                                   
     in an exemption the same way Unalaska did.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Look  how  the  Feds  locked   up  the  Tongass  Forest.                                                                   
     Remember,  the Statehood  Agreement  said that  Alaskans                                                                   
     could  develop resources  on the Federal  lands and  the                                                                   
     state  would  get  90%  of  the  revenue.  Thousands  of                                                                   
     people  were  put  out  of their  jobs  by  the  Federal                                                                   
     lockup  of the Tongass.  South East  villages are  dying                                                                   
     now because  there is no economy.  Do we think  the Feds                                                                   
     care any more for us?                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:37:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Should we  trust the environmental  groups? Do  we think                                                                   
     they will  not immediately file  a law suit  against the                                                                   
     10-J exemption?                                                                                                            
     Do you  remember how  the environmental  groups lied  to                                                                   
     the  people  of  Alaska  during   the  predator  control                                                                   
     issue? This  is why we  have a few  moose in many  parts                                                                   
     of the  state. Environmental  groups  made big bucks  on                                                                   
     the  wolf issue, bleeding  money out  of the  uninformed                                                                   
     people of the  lower 48 to "save the wolves"  that wiped                                                                   
     out our moose population.                                                                                                  
     They would love  to take your case to court...  the ONLY                                                                   
     wood bison herd in the United States.                                                                                      
     This  will be  a  big fund-raiser  for  them. They  will                                                                   
     make  millions  of  dollars   by  challenging  the  10-J                                                                   
     exemption. We Alaskans have no way to fight back.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Should  we trust  our own  State government?  A herd  of                                                                   
     Plains  Bison have been  in Delta  since the 20's.  They                                                                   
     are not  an endangered  species, but  the Delta hunt  is                                                                   
     so  popular, the  State  has ignored  the  cries of  the                                                                   
     Delta farmers  for decades. The bison  trampled $150,000                                                                   
     worth of  barley just last  year, but ADF&G  hasn't done                                                                   
     a thing  about it. If the  State won't do  something for                                                                   
     the  Delta farmers,  what makes  us think  they will  do                                                                   
     something  for us  against the  Federal Government  when                                                                   
     the Trojan Bison have our land locked up?                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:38:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                             Concern                                                                                            
     The bill  I have  submitted to  the House only  requires                                                                   
     the Department  of Fish  & Game  to get permission  from                                                                   
     the  Legislature   before  introducing  the   Endangered                                                                   
     Bison  into a location  in Alaska.  It doesn't  prohibit                                                                   
     the  introduction of  bison;  it just  helps keep  folks                                                                   
     from being buffalo-ed by the buffalo.                                                                                      
     If the  land gets locked  up, does the State  government                                                                   
     lose?  No.  Biologists  still  get  to  have  their  pet                                                                   
     project to study bison.                                                                                                    
     Do  professional hunting  groups  lose?  Well they  will                                                                   
     lose  the money  they put  into the  project, but  their                                                                   
     country won't be locked up.                                                                                                
     Who is the  loser? The people who will be  hurt the most                                                                   
     are  the  people  of Holy  Cross,  Anvik,  Shageluk  and                                                                   
     Grayling,  but  the  whole   state  will  be  negatively                                                                   
     affected as well.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:39:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     What is the best-case scenario?                                                                                            
     In ten  years we get  a one-in-a-hundred chance  to hunt                                                                   
     a bison,  while competing  with scores  of outsiders  in                                                                   
     our country.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     What  is  the  worst-case  scenario?   Your  corporation                                                                   
     land, and all  surrounding Federal and State  land, will                                                                   
     be locked  up while the bison  roam free. We  will spend                                                                   
     our  lives  in court,  and  some  Federal judge  no  one                                                                   
     every  voted for, who  could care  less whether we  live                                                                   
     or  die,  will  decide  whether we  can  tiptoe  on  the                                                                   
     tundra.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The effect  of the release of  the Trojan Bison  will be                                                                   
     irreversible.  Once they  are loose,  the problems  they                                                                   
     bring will never go away.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     People  of Holy Cross,  Grayling, Anvik  and Shageluk  I                                                                   
     think  introducing the  bison  into your  backyard is  a                                                                   
     HUGE mistake.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Some of  your young guys will  go out on a  snowy winter                                                                   
     night to  taste bison  meat and will  end up in  Federal                                                                   
     prison  for killing  an  endangered species.  The  bison                                                                   
     will be free roaming and the people will be locked up.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Let  me make a  suggestion.  Tell Fish &  Game you  want                                                                   
     Plains bison  like Delta, Fairwell  and Copper  River. I                                                                   
     bet Plains  Bison taste  just as  good as Trojan  Bison.                                                                   
     You will  get all  the benefits with  none of the  risk.                                                                   
     Tell  Fish  and  Game  to find  another  place  for  the                                                                   
     Endangered Bison.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The real solution  is effective predator control  to get                                                                   
     our moose back.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     I fear  that we will  become a very  sad "Whereas"  in a                                                                   
     very sad petition  to Washington DC that  doesn't listen                                                                   
     to our Governor or any other entity in this state.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Consider the facts and get back to me. Thanks.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:41:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK concluded:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Do you remember  the Charlie Brown cartoon?   Every year                                                                   
     Lucy  promised  not to  pull  the football  away,  every                                                                   
     year  Charlie  trusted her,  and  every year  she  found                                                                   
     another  excuse  to break  her  word and  leave  Charlie                                                                   
     Brown flat  on his  back.  It's  like that, the  federal                                                                   
     government  will find  some excuse to  break a  promise,                                                                   
     they always do.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:41:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[Co-Chair Seaton returned the gavel to Co-Chair Feige.]                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:41:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK, in response  to Representative  Herron, said                                                              
that he is still  trying to understand the definition  of the term                                                              
nonessential  experimental population,  which he  opined is  being                                                              
redefined.    In  fact, the  10(j)  exemption  of  the  Endangered                                                              
Species  Act (ESA)  is being  re-worded  so the  people of  Alaska                                                              
will   have  greater   assurances.     In   further  response   to                                                              
Representative  Herron, Representative  Dick said  that he  hasn't                                                              
submitted comments  to the U.S. Fish & Wildlife  Service regarding                                                              
the  reclassification  of  the  wood   bison  from  endangered  to                                                              
threatened.  He  related his opinion that there  isn't any wording                                                              
of  the   10(j)  exemption   that  would   make  any   difference,                                                              
particularly due to his mistrust of the federal government.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:43:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FOSTER asked if  Representative Dick  had received                                                              
any film credits for the earlier presented film.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK replied no.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:44:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  inquired as to  how [HB 186]  will impact                                                              
the  current bison  in Portage  and whether  the legislation  will                                                              
delay the existing proposal.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK said  that he has had conversations with ADF&G                                                              
staff and  learned that there is  the possibility that  this might                                                              
delay the moving  of the bison one  more year.  He  clarified that                                                              
he doesn't intend  to cause delay, but rather to  be sure those in                                                              
the area where the bison would be located are fully informed.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:45:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE surmised  from  Representative  Dick's video  that                                                              
it's not so much  of an issue of trust of the  federal government.                                                              
Rather, it's  that if bison are  introduced, the state  is subject                                                              
to any nongovernmental unit bringing a lawsuit.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK  indicated that  to  be the  case.   He  then                                                              
related that  he trusts the  current governor and  commissioner of                                                              
ADF&G.   However, he  recalled times  when past  governors  had no                                                              
concern  for rural  Alaskans.    Therefore, he  expressed  concern                                                              
that in the  future ADF&G won't be  able to move these  bison into                                                              
a place  in Alaska  without the  consent of  the legislature.   In                                                              
this case,  Representative  Dick opined that  residents of  Anvik,                                                              
Shageluk,  and  Grayling have  been  given  the positive  side  of                                                              
introducing  wood  bison,  but don't  understand  the  irrevocable                                                              
consequences.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:47:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE then  announced that  HB 186 would  be held  over,                                                              
noting that public testimony will be taken on 4/6/11.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:48:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:48 p.m. to 2:06 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Big Game Commercial - Polley#2.docx HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Game - Hoffman.doc HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Game - Spraker.doc HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Letters of Support for Ted Spraker.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186 Hearing Request.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB 186 Sponsor Statement.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB0186A.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB186-DFG-WC-04-01-11.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
Bison Damage _ 2010.doc HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
DBWG Recommendations 1 11 11 (2).doc HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Endangered Species Law and Policy.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Federal Register Vol 76 No 26.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186 Wood Bison Back Up - A.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB 186 Wood Bison Backup - B.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB 186 Wood Bison Backup - C.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB 186 Wood Bison Backup - D.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
Proposed Downlisting to Threatened.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Wood Bison News 1.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Wood Bison News 3.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
Wood Bison News 4a.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106 Amendment 9 -A.30 & Amendment 10 - A.31.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Letter of Intent.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment 11 - A.32.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment 12 - A.33.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment 7 - A.27.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment 8 - A. 28.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment Summary 4.4.11.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment 1 - A.2.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Amendment 6 - A.16.PDF HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB 106 Conceptual Amendment Changing statewide standard references 4.4.11.pdf HRES 4/4/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 106